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I think this is an excellent cartoon. I don't see how it can be construed as a criticism of every American citizen, and looking back over the comments here, I can't really see that anyone has taken it as such (although my German is terrible, so I might have missed something). It is simply a criticism of torture. The Statue of Liberty, as a universally known and understood symbol of American freedoms and (as you rightly suggest, Eric), aspirations, is a perfect counterpoint. A reminder of just how far behind those aspirations America has, temporarily we all hope, slipped. But it's the act; the very real and sordid act of torture, condoned at the highest level, that is surely the target here. And quite right, too.

[quote=volkertoons] “Hmm... I do not think, that Miss Liberty is really a Symbol of Freedom for ALL, as you mean, ericHews. You should just ask some people in Latin America and other countries in the world, wich have been oppressed and manipulated by US politics in the past. And it's not just since Mr. Bush's time, there was also a lot of crap done long before.”

E: Volker, at the risk of potentially irking you further, I must point out that you are [like I was, I guess] confusing a Symbol with Reality. LADY Liberty is INTENDED to stand for ALL of us. It represents an IDEAL to strive for, not a current state. Much like all Italians do not look like Michelangelo’s David, so, too, do we have different viewpoints on similar matters.

You're also generalizing that all Americans are essentially of the same mind because of the results of two elections [one of which was technically LOST by the party in power and the latter was practically a split]. We are emphatically NOT of one mind. We are of many minds, as I and many other cartoonist here are hopefully illustrating.

I agree that the U.S. Government [lately and over time] has made grievous mistakes to further its agendas. And, as you so accurately point out, so have many other countries’ governments. America has the stain of the Enslavement of the African people [and many others], massacring and driving the Native American tribes westward [as you mentioned], Vietnam atrocities... the list could easily go on. ☹ We are trying to reign in that sort of free-for-all from happening in the future. We are more well-informed than ever, which means we can hopefully have a brighter future and help people in the manner in which they WANT to be helped and not to further our own selfish needs [oil].

The whole point behind what the Statue of Liberty stands for is that the U.S. acts as a haven for the oppressed. And as Constitutionally 'FREE' and vocal Americans, we can cry out when we discover that our ‘haven’ and its many secret offices and departments, are up to no good. Are the average citizens in ANY country 100-percent aware of all the things their government is doing day-to-day? No, because Government is essentially an abdication of those concerns to a select few 'chosen' people.

I will not be held responsible for this mess. I didn’t ask for it and I don’t condone it.

[Sorry, I need to quote you or I can’t keep this all straight.]

[quote=volkertoons] “Critical Cartoons like this are not offensive to a single american citizen. Also comments don't harm any individual person. But many mistakes are not only done by the US-Gouvernement but also by the american society, that makes polititians like Mr. Bush and Co possible.”

E: Generalizations, again. Grr. ;) I was not offended by the cartoon, but by a few of the resulting comments that I now realize were probably left by some [hardly eloquent] rabble-rousers. I am an ardent admirer of Herr Schwalme and have been for some time. He had every right to express his displeasure in the visual fashion that he did. It’s that very sort of Freedom that the Statue stands for, after all.

The only individual you can speak for, Volker, is yourself. Same here. I don't presume to know what anyone else feels or finds offensive, because the very act of doing so IS offensive. To me. And probably to others. And, again, I and many millions of American voters did NOT choose Bush or his agenda, so please don’t presume to know what we think or feel on that or any matter without speaking to us each, individually.

[quote=volkertoons] “A question I ask myself sometimes: If so many US-Americans do not like what Mr. Bush does, why did they vote for him again in the last election so that he could become president for a second time?”

E: Not to belabour a point, but Bush technically LOST the 2000 election [Popular vote: Gore: 50,999,897; Bush: 50,456,002]. Again, you assume too much about me and this country's citizens. We are NOT of one mind. Far from it. The election results PROVE that.

And there was no louder out-cry EVER over a U.S. election, than these last two. Lawsuits were filed, recounts were done, people were fired... but the System [broken Elector College crap!] and powerful ‘friends’ allowed what occurred to take place. Sadly, there were also some un-provable shenanigans going on in both. ☹

[quote=volkertoons] “And what I cannot hear anymore is every time a German critizises things happening in other countries, someone says: "I also do not lable you for what happened in the past in your country." But if they do not, why do they always use that example of the 3rd Reich, 60 years ago? If we look to the past, many countries did things, that are not less criminal and mad. Just 40 years before the 3rd Reich american natives were genocided in mass slaughters and "democracy" was built on their graves.”

E: I agree. And for the record, I never mentioned Hitler. You did. So who’s labeling whom? ;)

No matter. You further my point in that no country's government is blameless, BUT the individual citizens should not be grouped in with the governments they elect, if they end up not being aligned after the fact.

How many FAMOUS stories are there of German citizens fighting against Hitler, harboring Jewish people and/or helping the French Resistance? Plenty. Should these people be categorized as evil, as well, simply because their government turned out to be? That’s what you’re condoning be done to us. ☹

There are millions more people [many who voted for Bush twice; and, again, not THIS guy!] who are angry and disgruntled over the state of things here and what we've wrought in Iraq and elsewhere. Only the 'ostriches' [and the pathologically Republican] think things are fine.

Revolution, anyone? ;)

[quote=volkertoons] “The British Empire treated the locals in their colonies like animals. And many other countries did the same.”

E: In spite of how it was created [bad stuff there, too], America was technically one of those British colonies. Our fore-fathers and mothers were also mistreated. We revolted. Hence, the United States of America.

[quote=volkertoons] “But it's so easy to forget all this when you can look on the stupid Krauts and their Nazi history.”

E: Your words, not mine. But again, you help to illustrate my point, although I think there may yet be some over-sensitivity that is unwarranted.

No one has forgotten anything. It’s imperative that we DO remember. We even teach the bad things in our under-funded schools, as well, so we don’t emulate them. And we teach ‘OUR’ mistakes, as well. :)

Regardless of the vehemence with which I defend the good side of America, I’m very sorry to have unintentionally angered you [or anyone] with my comments, misunderstood as some of them were. I felt it was my duty as a free-thinking, liberal-minded American to stand up for Americans here and abroad, many of whom are honest, smart and kind people, who DO NOT support this foolish man and his powerful friends.

As for those who DID vote for him twice, even they had no idea what his eventual agenda would be.

I bid you good day and good cartooning, Volker. Please let me know if something I said here is unclear. I believe we are both on the same page in some ways, just perhaps misunderstanding one another…

Peace. Please? :)

-Eric
erichews@yahoo.com

Ps. My apologies and all due respect to Herr Schwalme for taking up so much space on his toonpool page. ☺ If anyone would like to contact me directly [to save dear Reiner’s nerves], I encourage you to do so. This goes double for you, Volker. ☺ Just please be patient with the time it takes for my over-long responses. And I also have cartoons to draw…

What a great cartoon....the message is loud and clear

Hmm... I do not think, that Miss Liberty is really a Symbol of Freedom for ALL, as you mean, ericHews. You should just ask some people in Latin America and other countries in the world, wich have been oppressed and manipulated by US politics in the past. And it's not just since Mr. Bush's time, there was also a lot of crap done long before.

Critical Cartoons like this are not offensive to a single american citizen. Also comments don't harm any individual person. But many mistakes are not only done by the US-Gouvernement but also by the american society, that makes polititians like Mr. Bush and Co possible.

A question I ask myself sometimes: If so many US-Americans do not like what Mr. Bush does, why did they vote for him again in the last election so that he could become president for a second time?

And what I cannot hear anymore is every time a German critizises things happening in other countries, someone says: "I also do not lable you
for what happened in the past in your country." But if they do not, why do they always use that example of the 3rd Reich, 60 years ago? If we look to the past, many countries did things, that are not less criminal and mad. Just 40 years before the 3rd Reich american natives were genocided in mass slaughters and "democracy" was built on their graves. The British Empire treated the locals in their colonies like animals. And many other countries did the same. But it's so easy to forget all this when you can look on the stupid Krauts and their Nazi history.

I'm hoping Herr Schwalme's piece can take on a different tone, now that a recent decision in the U.S. Supreme Court grants Guantanamo Detainees the full rights of Civilians to Plead their cases in Federal Court. Late, certainly, but hopefully the Guilty will be named and the Innocent made whole [somehow].

I am pointedly disappointed that so many of you 'commentators' think this is somehow reflective of American 'Truth' and are high-fiving each other and crowing over it. No one in their right mind supports torture and unlawful detention and it is irresponsible and glossing to label a symbol of Freedom [and the millions of people who immigrated through Ellis Island] so callously. It represents ALL of us, not just the Government.

Again, I don't believe that's what Herr Schwalme was doing here. I think he is being misunderstood. I think he was trying to illustrate that underneath some very good things are occasionally some bad things we need to ferret out. We're doing that. After the next election, we'll do even more.

Some of you are perhaps too young to recall [or have conveniently forgotten] what it's like to have the wrong leadership. I wouldn't label any of YOU with your respective countries' mistakes.

Respectfully.

Nice original artwork. Keep going on.

Die Karikatur ist ohne zweifel großartig, aber muss die denn immer soweit vorne in den Top Rated stehen?

A stunning image, congratulations.

arschgeil atze

Klasse!